Evangelical/Calvinst Discussion

E: So...are you saying that I cannot make the choice to be saved?
C: Not at all. If someone is a Christian, they DO choose Christ. What I am trying to get at is this...why is it that one person chooses Christ and another does not?
E: Well one person understands the message and the other does not. One sees his need and the other does not.
C: So if the one who "sees his need" makes a choice for Christ, then isn't he saved by his choice?
E: Aren't we all saved by our choice?
C: That's what I'm getting at. Let me say it this way. If God only saves us after we make a decision, how then are we saved by grace and not works? Isn't making a choice an act of our will? Yet, we both claim that we are saved by God's grace alone. As Paul said, "For by grace have you been saved through faith."
E: It's both grace and faith in that verse. Notice that the grace comes through faith. I don't think that's controversial. Do you?
C: Where does the faith come from, though? That is, if the faith comes from us without the help of God, aren't we saved by something within us?
E: I don't follow.
C: We both say faith is necessary, right? Well, if that faith originates from our minds or hearts, apart from God, how is salvation an act of God? How is it "God's salvation" as the Old Testament says over and over? Or how is it the "gospel of God" or "of Christ" as the New Testament says? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say it is the "gospel that I believed"?
E: Well we do believe the gospel, right? I don't understand why that's causing this discussion?
C: Let me get the point. How did you acquire the faith to believe?
E: I don't know. I heard the message of salvation one morning and felt the need to respond.
C: But hadn't you heard the message many times in your life?
E: Sure. I heard it all the time - Sunday school, from my parents, from the pastor.
C: Then what was it about THAT time that moved you? Was the pastor more gifted then? Was the music arranged better that morning? Were you already thinking about it during the previous week?
E: Not sure. It just "clicked" that morning. I can't explain it. I knew it was the truth and that I needed to "surrender" to Christ. So I made the decision to be committed to Him.
C: And is it that decision that caused God to save you?
E: Well sure. That's what the Scripture says - "whoever believes in me will never die."
C: Ultimately, then, God "rewarded" your faith. You "earned" the right to be saved by your understanding of the message and your decision to dedicate yourself to Him. How is this NOT salvation by something you did or thought or said?
E: You're putting words in my mouth. You said so yourself that Christians CHOOSE Christ. So what's the difference?
C: Here is the difference. What you can't explain related to your choice, the Scripture does explain. As Jesus said in John 3, "The wind blows where it pleases....so it is with he who is born of the Spirit." Notice the language - BORN of the Spirit. That is, God gives birth to you. And, just like you had no control over your natural birth, so you have control over your spiritual birth. God empowered you with the ability to understand and receive His message. He changed you BEFORE you made your choice. In fact, He had to change you or you never would have chosen Him.
E: Wait a minute....What do you mean He HAD to change me BEFORE I believed? First I had to accept Him, then He began to change me. Your idea is completely backwards. He did His part by dying on the cross and rising again. Now he asks us to do our part by repenting and following Him. After we make that choice, then God indwells us by His spirit.
C: Actually....God's plan of salvation is much bigger and much more involved than "His part" and "my part." E: How so?
C: Let's pick this is up next week. I have to get home. We'll start next time with your question of "why God HAD to change us BEFORE we believed?" Sound good?
E: Yeah. I'll see you soon.